Because you think you don’t pay for your healthcare?
As an European, I have probably paid upwards of 150k for healthcare and probably got about 10k worth of it (at what might consider unreasonable prices, mind you). Even in countries with universal healthcare, it’s not free. There is always someone footing the bill.
The point is, in most of Europe it’s the richer folks that foot the bill for the poorer ones. That’s a system based on solidarity - you contribute to our collective ability to treat our sick and injured, according to your financial means.
EDIT: at least that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory. Of course the richest people don’t foot the bill for anyone but themselves.
In Germany we have a two-prong system of public and private health insurance, so the richer folks actually remove themselves from the solidarity system, leaving the middle class with good jobs to pay for most of the expenses.
In neighboring Nederland, all healthcare is privately insured and administered but the costs are capped by the government with small increases for inflation every year. Having insurance is also mandatory so nobody is left out. If you can’t afford it, the welfare system also picks up your monthly premium.
For people who use more resources, there is an annual deductible of around €500 per person that resets with the new year. After you pay the deductible, the rest of your care and medication is free.
Personally, now living here 2 years, I think it’s a good system that compromises in many of the right areas. My biggest complaint is that your GP is the gatekeeper to all other care, so if you are certain you need to see a specialist, you’ll need to convince your GP first. That all fine and dandy when we’re talking about an ENT doctor for example, but hella annoying when you need to get a referral for a therapist that is covered by insurance. The Dutch drug prices are also ridiculous (allergy meds and other specialized OTC drugs are insanely expensive) but luckily I can order them online from Germany for much more reasonable tariffs! ;)
The German system is interestingly (but not surprisingly fucked up). In Switzerland there is a mandatory health insurance (which provides for most healthcare needs), but insurances are private companies which charge different prices for the same service (because of course they would), which vary greatly according to which village you live in (because our “states” negotiate the prices with the health providers and then insurances, through a very transparent and understandable system; I am kidding of course, probably the people designing it don’t even understand it fully, citizens and politicians damn sure don’t). Prices have been steadily rising for my whole adult life with no end in sight. There have been some tries to get rid of that in favor of universal healthcare managed by the state, but the people said “no” because they fully understood and weighed the issue (I am kidding, the people defending the current system just bought more ads than the people pushing for change).
But hey, at least getting run over by an ambulance won’t bankrupt you! Silver linings, eh?
Absolutely, but OP made it sound that he was baffled that people had to pay for an ambulance. But then again maybe there is an European country I don’t know of where ambulances are provided for free by some car company, fueled through the generous donation of an energy company, supplied by a good-hearted medical supplies company and manned and driven by unpaid interns and/or students?
The solidarity system most European countries have is without a doubt superior than the mess that is the US healthcare system, but it sure as fuck isn’t free.
Right, what these people don't understand is the US already has a socialized medical care system, it's just shit. Insurance also turns a profit, and they also have the highest incentive to not pay for care AND make healthcare provider's jobs as difficult as possible.
It's a socialized system but with inefficiency baked in and guaranteed. That's why the US pays significantly more for healthcare while also having worse quality care.
This is such a tired, pedantic retort. Nobody believes that taxpayer-funded services are "not paid for". OP obviously meant "pay for fully by the individual at the point of sale."
And yes, as an American, it also boggles my mind that we have to pay for emergency health services including ambulances[1]. My wife, who is not from a stone-age civilization like ours, didn't realize it either the first time we needed to hit up the emergency room. Thankfully I was able to convince her to not call for an ambulance, and I drove myself to the hospital.
I am sorry you feel it was a tired and pedantic retort, I might just have misunderstood what OP was trying to say. I was not trying to be pedantic, just to point out that some people (in this case, also OP) think we somehow get healthcare thrown at us for free when this is far from being the case.
In the case of Switzerland (which is in Europe, at least geographically) we do not have a “taxpayer-funded system” (see my other comment in the thread) and that ambulance ride would have to have been (depending on your insurance providers which go with a “you pay now, we reimburse later”, literally) paid fully at the individual at the point of sale (in the most logical model for someone in good health, the first 2’500 CHF + 10% up to 700 CHF a year are “self pay”).
Moreover, ambulance rides are not covered by the health care insurance in case of “accidents”. Which in this case (being run over by an ambulance) it very clearly is. It might be covered by the accident insurance, if you have one (which to be fair is the case if you work more than 20%). In case of “sickness”, some complementary insurances might reimburse for part of these costs.
You would probably find that this is actually the case in many European countries. The American healthcare system might be broken, but please don’t pretend that the ones in Europe aren’t and that we all live in some kind of healthcare utopia (see someone else’s post about the two-speed German system in the thread).
Healthcare is very lucrative, and greed does not know any borders.
What other countries pay for healthcare, the US taxpayer pays for their military (much more actually) so for the end user, free healthcare is much better.
In Lithuania, a mandatory health insurance tax of 6.98% is deducted from your monthly salary. For example, if you earn €5,000 per month (chosen as it is close to the average salary in the United States), this amounts to €349 per month or €4,188 per year. Despite this tax, you often have to pay for many services unless you can afford to wait months in line. Consequently, many companies provide their employees with additional health insurance, typically costing between €100 and €300 extra per month, allowing people to access private clinics for treatment without the long waiting times.
Therefore, the total cost of insurance ranges from €449 to €649 per month. In comparison, the average cost of health insurance in the United States is $447 to $703 per month. Although the sums are quite similar, the standard of care in the United States is often considered higher, with significant payouts if doctors make a mistake, which contributes to the increased costs, unlike in Lithuania where you'll get a pittance.
Just because these fees are not immediately visible doesn't mean they don't exist. Get off your high horse. There are very few countries in the European Union where healthcare is any good and the core reason behind it is that they're filthy rich (at least for now).
Furthermore, unlike in the United States, we pay a significant amount of taxes. Let's say you earn €5000 per month. From your monthly salary, you'll have deductions of 20% for income tax, 6.98% for mandatory health insurance, and 12.52% for government social insurance, totaling 39.5% in deductions, which leaves you with €3025. Additionally, for almost everything you buy, you'll pay a 21% VAT (Value Added Tax), reducing your effective spending power to €2390 (48% of what you earn!). There are also property taxes, but at the moment, they are relatively small, though there are plans to increase them significantly. Despite the average Lithuanian earning much less than the average American, we also pay more for energy. For example, petrol costs $5.83 per gallon and electricity is $0.30 per kWh, which is almost double!
> Just because these fees are not immediately visible doesn't mean they don't exist. Get off your high horse.
You're the one pretending to be above the poster you are responding to while arguing a strawman. No one is claiming that healthcare costs are not being paid for.
There are three major factors you conveniently ignore:
- You only look at average earners. It's not surprising that the average earner ends up paying about the same. What socialized healthcare is to make staying alive affordable for those less well off. Averages across the population don't tell you the whole story.
- Insurance that covers all associated costs like ambulances minimizes the unexpected costs that can very well trhow people's lives into shambles. Yes you still end up paying for those on average but average lifetime healthcare contributions don't tell you the whole story.
- Being charged for ambulance trips forces people to decide between an unexpected cost and a potentially required life saving service. At first this may sound like a good way to reduce unneccessary ambulance use but most people are horrible at triaging the severity of their own health issues.
